Displaying items by tag: Mardra Thomas

In 1971, Nicki Giovanni was a young Black poet already risen to prominence when she and the celebrated Black author James Baldwin met for a two hour conversation broadcast from London on PBS. Baldwin, 47, an éminence grise, answered the poet’s questions at length and Giovanni, 28, offered her own commentary as she asked a range of things, from the factual such as, why did he move to Europe, to queries on African-American creatives, writing and about the world at large - all in the context of the Black experience of life.

“The Baldwin | Giovanni Experience” at Evanston’s Fleetwood-Jourdain Theatre attempts to capture the essence of that conversation, in a 90-minute world premier of the theatrical work at Evanston’s Fleetwood-Jourdain Theatre. Directed by Tim Rhoze who co-authored it with Bria Walker-Rhoze, the work includes music, poetry and dance woven into the discussion, and appropriately so. Especially given that we have Nikki Giovanni (Rachel Blakes) on stage, who is poetry personified.

“To be African-American,” Baldwin tells Giovanni, and the camera, “is to be African without any memory, and American without any of the privileges.” That incisive assessment incredibly forthright for broadcast television in its time. The show was “Soul!” produced by WNET in New York from 1968 to 1973.

Baldwin told Giovanni he felt he had to go to Europe and get away from the U.S. to find his voice, but found he brought many things with him. Away from his home turf Baldwin discovered he carried along the emotional baggage born of systemic racism, one that he realized he had internalized and which imposed on him cultural constraint. “The world is not my only oppressor,” Baldin relates. “I was doing it to myself.” He offers an example of Black internalized limits on behavior. “You don’t eat watermelon or fried chicken in public.”

The conversation goes much deeper in the course of the show, touching on the role of Black churches (“The Church is always in me as a Black man,” Baldwin says), family violence, and laments the loss of Black leaders assassinated.

“What do you say when the chosen few are gone too soon?” Giovanni offers. “Whatever it was, we found a way to love through it,” she says.“We, who were enslaved, found a way to cook, to dance, to laugh”

Both Giovanni and James Baldwin (Sean Blake) talk at length, the poet mostly providing the prompts that lead to lengthy erudite, deeply reflective discourse from Baldwin - as was his wont. With sections drawn directly from the 1971 PBS video (available at YouTube), Sean Blake gives a fully realized performance when he is recounting the words of Baldwin: literary and cultivated, polished and worldly, yet rooted in his origins in Harlem, NY - his utterances salted musically with the vernacular of his birthplace. Blake’s Baldwin is completely convincing.

It is amazing on viewing the original PBS tape how consistently “The Baldwin | Giovanni Experience” represents key points from the original - yet it gives us more. Giovanni speaks up, offering her reflections on life as a Black poet - just like the original.(The show also reminds me of the Baldwin-focused staging earlier this year, “Debate: Baldwin vs. Buckley,” also based on a television encounter, this one at Cambridge in 1965.)

But the stage version also diverges, for good, though also in some ways not so much. Giovanni gives us snippets of poetry, and Baldwin on stage adopts periodically a more poetic version of himself, speaking at times in meter and rhyme - letting us know he is being influenced by Giovanni as they speak. Eventually the two are up from their chairs, and we have song and dance - the playwrights offer an imagined Baldwin, in red framed glasses voicing a hip-hop passage. It all seems natural and true, probably relying more on Giovanni in her later years for styles that arose after Baldwin was gone.

Where I felt some disappointment was in how Giovanni is portrayed as though she is lesser than Baldwin, placing him on a pedestal - where he belongs, for sure - but where she should be too. On the PBS video, she is more expressive, more self-possessed and serious, not just a foil for Baldwin the star. On stage, Giovanni becomes more of a worshipful cheerleader, interjecting “I can dig that” multiple times after an elegant and sharp monologue by Baldwin - making the performance more about him than her. To be sure, Giovanni on stage gets her words out, but on the whole seems to stand in Baldwin’s shadow.  

On opening night, a lovely lagniappe was offered in a warmup before the show, as Isaiah Jones, Jr. soloed at the piano and accompanied vocalist Mardra Thomas. 

“The Baldwin | Giovanni Experience” runs on weekends through November 16, 2025 at Evanston’s Fleetwood-Jourdain Theatre.